The Clann That Will Not Die
A.H. Muir's Discussions
Armigers within the Clann Muir
3 Replies
Started this discussion. Last reply by John L. Moore Sr ESQ Aug 26.
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Thanks to you for this information
Dear Mr Moore
As you would be applying to the Lord Lyon as a petiitioner from outside Scotland there may be some difference from the general process, but the main steps are as follows:
Originals of birth, death, marriage certificates of self, fath…
A.H.
PLEASE EXPLAINE THE PROCESS FOR MATRICULATING ARMS.......I WISH TO COMPAIRE IT TO THE INFO ON THE LORD LYONS SITE WHEN I GO TO IT .....I AM THINKING OF DOING SO MY SELF
THANK YOU.....JOHN
Profile Information
- Full Name
- Allan H. Muir, Jnr
- Residence Location city/state/province/zip code
- 100 Queen's Road
Aberdeen
Scotland AB15 4YG
- What is your interest in Clann Muir?
- I am a Muir
Comment Wall (12 comments)
- At 5:07am on September 9, 2009,
Victor G. Muir Leeman said…
- Allan,
Thanks very much. I've just sent you an email.
Kind regards,
Victor
- At 5:21pm on September 8, 2009,
Victor G. Muir Leeman said…
- Dear Mr. Muir,
Would you be kind enough to send me your email address as I would like to discuss something with you.
Kind regards,
Victor
- At 10:29am on August 14, 2009,
Kurt Moore Clan Guardian said…
- Alan looks like you were correct, you cannot make any requests for information via e-mail. They only accept snail mail requests. This is supposed to be the 21st century. I understand they deal with history but they don't have do business in past technologies, they could us e-mail to speed things up abit. Oh well, off to draft a snail mail letter to the Lord Lyon's office and hope it actually arrives unlike the last item I sent to Scotland which is still missing in action. Sigh. Please be patient with us, we're working as fast as we can. Thanks, Kurt
- At 10:15am on August 14, 2009,
Kurt Moore Clan Guardian said…
- Alan, thanks for clarifying that situation up for me. Obviously this is going to be a somewhat slower process than I would like. I have no paperwork on these issues, however I have contacted Andrew to clarify exactly where in the process he is at this time. I am awaiting his answer. In the interim, I shall send off an e-mail request to the Lord Lyon's office and get what I can from them. We will proceed apace from as I get more data. I can see that there is much to do and we will get to it. Thanks again for all of your help.
Kurt
- At 5:25pm on August 13, 2009,
Kurt Moore Clan Guardian said…
- Dear Alan, I just re-read your last posting and that is simply incredible. This is the 21st century and they don't communicate by phone or e-mail? I guess I won't be personally contacting them as I can't fly to Scotland at the drop of a hat! This is why errors occur and why they are so difficult to fix. Never fear, we will get all of this fixed up. Thanks again for your help in these matters. Kurt
- At 4:57pm on August 13, 2009,
Kurt Moore Clan Guardian said…
- Dear Alan, I have had a computer virus on my system that has taken me several days to clear up. I'm having to recreate the last posting as I inadvertently deleted it as opposed to editing it to add more date. Head space and timing of the operator lead to that error.
I personally did not contact the Lord Lyon's office, that was done by my Scottish contact Mrs Rae. Mrs Rae is no longer with the Society and I have not been able to contact her for some 4 years. The data we collected on the history has had many sources to include the Lord Lyon's office, Historic Scotland, and the Council of Standing Chiefs. Obviously what we have been told is vastly different from what you told me.
Also obviously we have serious errors that need to be corrected. It is not proper for Andrew to refer to himself as the Chief as I explained to you in my previous posting. I appreciate all of the assistance you have rendered in making sure that the data we put out is as clear and correct as possible. To that end we have a lot of work to do to correct various sites and make sure that the data is correct. I do not have the hard copies of communications with the Lord Lyons office. I acted off of what was told to me, much as I am doing with what you have just told me.
I can see that I need to contact the Lord Lyon's office myself and get some hard copy data. Do you remember who it was you spoke to at the Lord Lyon's office? I would like to contact that same person as I have many questions to ask of him or her. Thanks, Kurt
- At 8:34pm on August 5, 2009,
Kurt Moore Clan Guardian said…
- First off let me state that there is no such creature as a Chief Elect. Andrew is the Head of the House of Muir (or Clan Commander take your choice) as was suggested by the Council of Standing Chiefs and recognized by the Clan Muir Society. Andrew is not the Chief of the Clan Muir. No person has yet to be chosen by the Lord Lyon to be the living Chief of Clan Muir. So how did we come to the current situation?
Basically when I got into my Scottish heritage I found almost no information on the Clan Muir at all. I did several months of research and came up with a small history of the clan. So I created a website dedicated to the Clan and formed the Clan Muir Society (as no such entity existed at that time, at least none I could locate). About a year passed, membership grew, and there were a couple of hundred members worldwide primarily in the USA, Canada, and Scotland. One of the Scottish members volunteered to contact the Lord Lyon's office and the Council of Standing Chiefs to find out how we could go about having a Chief of our Clan named. It was on their recommendations that we held an election to formally appoint someone Head of our House, not as the Chief as only the Lord Lyon can approve a Chief. So I put up a forum on the website to have folks put in for the position and to run an election. Andrew was the only person who stepped up and put his name in contention so he won the election and was appointed Head of the House of Muir as recognized by the Clan Society. We have informed the Council of Standing Chiefs that we elected Andrew into that position and he is currently in the process of filling out the necessary forms and gathering the necessary fees to have the Lord Lyon consider him for the position of Chief of Clan Muir.
If you choose not to recognize Andrew as the Head of the House then please feel free not to recognize him. If you think that you would qualify to be the Chief, you should also feel free to apply to the Lord Lyon’s office and pay the necessary fees and provide the proof that you should be the Chief of the Clan and let the Lord Lyon choose from amongst the various applications he has on hand. I have no interest in being the Chief. I only want to provide a source of information about our clan and see the vacant Chiefdom filled with an officially recognized Chief. If Andrew’s heritage is sufficient to the cause, so be it. If someone else has better credentials and they can prove it to the Lord Lyon’s satisfaction so be it. No one has stepped up and stated that they wanted to be Chief of the Clan except for Andrew. Until and unless such a person steps up and proves he is the rightful heir to the Chiefdom, the Clan Muir Society recognizes Andrew Moore as the Head of the House of Muir.
This is a very short version of a process that took over a year to put into effect. It is binding within the Clan Muir Society only. We have followed all recommendations of the Lord Lyon’s office and the Council of Standing Chiefs to reach this point. We have a system of Clan Conveners, High Commissioners, and Guardians in place as well as a set of rules drafted by myself and Andrew with input from the members of the Society. These rules are in effect for the members of the Society only. Nothing done to date is legally binding to any party outside of the Clan Muir Society. The Clan Muir Society is the only organization that has done anything at all to promote the interests of the Clan Muir. That is its sole reason for existence. Anyone who is interested in helping promote the Clan is welcome in the Society. We would love your expertise to assist in the rebuilding of Clan Muir. It is obvious you deeply care as we do.
- At 5:30am on August 4, 2009,
John L. Moore Sr ESQ said…
- Of this I have no Idea....might be a good forum Question
- At 6:48pm on April 6, 2009,
Kurt Moore Clan Guardian said…
- Allan, the paper products are primarily flyes with the clan history that I print off on heavy duty card stock on my printer. I may just color xerox them as I have to produce a bunch of them. There are some pictures of the crest, the tartan, the castle and a clan map on it. It's just a nice little informational thing that answers most questions about the clan,
- At 6:04pm on February 9, 2009,
John L. Moore Sr ESQ said…
- Welcome Mo Chara.......ts good to see the native born joining in...meeting the family.........build your page....have fun here in the forums,blogs and such
John L.Moore,Sr ESQ
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